59 responses to “Obama Reacts to House Prohibition of Abortion Funding”

1. 

   R.L.

   November 16, 2009

   Dan:
   Some of your points are well taken.
   Shaun:
   You are easily the most reasonable man posting here.
   Walt:
   I’m not sure what “personal witness” means. Are you suggesting that you personally witnessed most of the women who have had abortions break down at the sight of an infant?
   Philip:
   What can I say? You are certainly impassioned.
   To clarify my position on a couple of things:
   1. In my state “human life” in effect, begins at birth.
   2. There is a profound difference between liberty and lawlessness.
   3. The law is a dynamic and ever evolving entity that compensates for a myriad of factors, not the least of which is the era in which it is written.
   4. When you speak of a higher law trumping “man’s” law it opens the door to anarchy. What higher law? Sharia Law? Talmudic law? Excuse me here but, the law in the voice of the angel sitting on your shoulder? (As I said, there is only the law.)
   5. Law has to do with what is legal and permissible and what is not. There is no such thing as “legalized murder.”
   Fairly recently, a doctor who preformed late term abortions was shot to death inside his church. Do any of you see this as murder or do consider that sort of conduct as justifiable homicide?

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2. 

   Bill W.

   November 16, 2009

   Walt, I remember a Ray the Hick posting here some time back. Most of what he said was way off the mark, but I dont recall him ever sounding as nuts as Jon. I don’t think the other one (John) is actually Ray the Hick either.

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3. 

   Walt

   November 16, 2009

   RL, “Personel witness” means I know women who have suffered sincere regret that has lasted many years after having an abortion. Does this sound inconceveable to you? The child is not the only victim. “Doctors” get wealthy, politicians gain power a child gets killed and a woman gets dammaged, often for life. At least someone wins.

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4. 

   Robert Berger

   November 17, 2009

   It’s not liberal administrations s such as Obama’s that are a threat to freedom, but conservative ones.
   Where’s the “freedom ” if women lose the right to legal abortions, and are forced to back-alley abortionists who will be unsafe and unsanitary ? or for the poorest women who will just try to abort themselves and die or be seriously hurt as a result?
   And how the heck will the government inforce the law if abortion become illegal again in America. It never did before Roe v Wade, and won’t be able to even if abortion becomes illegal again.
   How will the government stop women from getting illegal abortions ? Have thousands and thousands of government agents snooping around everywhere ?
   Or stop women who can afford it from flying aborad for safe ,legal ones? Put up blockades at every border and airport and examine every woman of childbearing age for pregnancy ?
   Or stop poor women from trying to abort themselves? Put up surveillance cameras in every home and arrest them if they try this?
   This doesn’t sound like the “free” America conservatives claim to want where the government isn’t “on our backs”, but
   more like Orwell’s 1984 .
   Let’s face it; unless we do more to help poor pregnant women, married or single, we’re not going to do anything about the problem of abortion.

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5. 

   Shaun

   November 17, 2009

   Robert,
   I am almost convinced its pointless arguing with you but a simple response is warranted nonetheless. Why can’t I use your argument in the above post for every crime? You wanting to enforce laws prohibiting murder is an enfringment on my civil liberties. Why cant I sell crack? If they dont buy it from me than they will go to an unsafe drug dealer where they might get shot. Just saying.

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6. 

   R.L.

   November 17, 2009

   Thank you, that clears it up.
   It is very different to say that you know women who have regretted an abortion than to say that “most women” who have had an abortion can’t be in the same room with an infant and not break into tears.
   I think you know that anyway. Your clear exaggeration for effect was intended; but not a product of any intention to deceive; but rather a manifestation of the emotional response you have to the topic of abortion. Dead babies – Damaged women – Tearful encounters with infants – Sleazy doctors getting rich.
   I do agree with you that some women are damaged by the procedure. But, only to the extent that anti-abortion forces stigmatize her choice to terminate her pregnancy. (The opterative words here being “her choice” and “her pregnancy.”)

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7. 

   Adrienne

   November 18, 2009

   I disagree. The damage to women is not limited “…only to the extent that anti-abortion forces stigmatize her choice to terminate her pregnancy.” That implies that if there was no anti-abortion movement, women that receive abortions would go merrily along their way with no “damage”.
   I have heard women tell of feeling deep regret, a sense of great loss, and crippling guilt for killing their unborn child. These women didn’t have these feelings because anti-abortion forces tell them what they did was wrong; they simply regret the choice they made. And abortion is very devastating for women who later want to have a child but cannot; I know women in this situation who are wracked with guilt and wish they would have chosen a different option.

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8. 

   R.L.

   November 18, 2009

   Okay, fair enough; some women are damaged by an abortion; not all women are. You cannot however discount the impact of pro-life propaganda (yes the other side propagandizes too) on those women who are damaged. It must impart some sense of guilt to be blamed for murdering your baby; which is the message of the “anti-aborters” (to steal Jon’s word.)
   On another note, it is telling that no one replied to my question about murdering abortion doctors.

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9. 

   Shaun

   November 18, 2009

   “On another note, it is telling that no one replied to my question about murdering abortion doctors”
   I dont think so. If anything its such an extreme position that no one feels the need to rebuke it. I feel safe in saying that no one here agrees with murdering abortion doctors. Some of us might feel like it at times but we respect the notion of Law. A Law that states justice is not to be carried out except by the proper authorities. Many of us believe those in that profession will stand in judgement and be forced to explain themselves when they leave this world. Besides, all the money in the world couldn’t convinve me to perform abortions, I suspect many of them face the demons of their occupation on a daily basis.
   Shaun,
   BTW, your emblem is different. Are you the same R.L? We get a lot of people imitating others here to provoke controvesy.

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