20 responses to “How to Win the Separation of Church and State Debate”

1. 

   Robert Berger

   July 17, 2008

   Separation of church and state
   is definitely under assault from
   the religious right and other
   extremist conservatives.
   If we are not careful they will
   use freedom of religion as an excuse to foist their social and
   economic agenda on America, and we
   could be headed towards a theocracy. I don’t condemn them
   for their religious beliefs per se; I just don’t want them trying
   to impose their religion on the whole country and interfering with
   individual freedoms. That’s just what they will do if they get too much
   power. If that happens,we will
   have presidents are inaugurated by swearing on the constitution to uphold the bible, not swearing on the bible to uphold the constitution. This must never happen.

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2. 

   W. Tieff

   July 17, 2008

   Theocracy, shmeocracy..
   Here’s a thought: Is it wrong to steal a car? Or is the freedom of thievery something that is protected by the Constitution?
   Ok so the Ten Commandments has an item in it that commands as follows: “Thou shalt not steal.”
   Is that kind of Commandment right? or wrong?
   This cannot go both ways, d@mmit!
   If it is wrong to steal someone’s property, or murder him, or otherwise exhibit envy upon him to the extent that it fosters outright greed, and thus directly leads to either of the previous prohibitions, then any admonitions agains such said behavior must be considered inherently good, and correct. Now as an idea for establishing a rule of law, and not a rule of man, Faith and religious culture usually does a bang-up job, Sharia notwithstanding. But the culture itself is essential in establishing that ruling! Culturally religious rule of law (theocracy, if you must call it that) is NOT on par with “rule of Man” or Autocracy/Dictatorship. It just isn’t. This is what Mr. Duke has so eloquently debated in his above thesis. Correct Ideas vs. Incorrect Ideas. Wrong and Right. It’s not a matter of power. It’s a matter of right and wrong, period.

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3. 

   W. Tieff

   July 17, 2008

   Oops. Didn’t mean to post 3 friggin’ times.. Lousy servers!

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4. 

   Yo

   July 17, 2008

   Can’t you people practice your religion in private? You know the rest of us don’t want to hear it, don’t you? Your churches should pay taxes. And you should be quite in public places; it’s called being polite.

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5. 

   Chris

   July 17, 2008

   Can’t you people practice your secularism in private? You know the rest of us don’t want to hear it, don’t you? Your non-profit PACs should pay taxes. And you should be quiet about your secularist beliefs in public places; it’s called being polite.

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6. 

   Yo

   July 17, 2008

   Chris, you are so original I’m at a loss for words. I’d tell you where to go, but of course…it doesn’t exist. (How come you didn’t just turn the other cheek? Maybe you don’t buy it either.) Come on…You should be praying for me instead of offering your facile wit.

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7. 

   M.B.

   July 18, 2008

   Sorry…there is no Santa Claus! There is no tooth fairy. No boogyman or easter bunny. The only thing that goes bump in the night is your cat. There are no devils or angels on your shoulder fighting over the amazing vanishing act that you think is your soul. What you see in the autumn sky is not a witch on a broomstick. There are no ghosts or ghouls. There is no heavan or hell; what happens after death is decomposition. So, save a little shuteye this Sunday. There is no god either. Sorry to have to tell you.

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8. 

   Chris

   July 18, 2008

   Turning the other cheek doesn’t mean to meekly sit back and let people walk over you. You insinuated that people of faith shouldn’t be able to express it. I thought expression was what makes someone American? Our forefathers made sure free speech was an integral part of our system, and they were greatly religious. I would merely trying to show how ridiculous your statements are when turned around. Of course, nobody expects people who hate religion to bite their tongue, only those who believe.

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9. 

   democrat

   July 18, 2008

   M.B., sorry to have to tell you this, as you aren’t intelligent enough to distinguish the two. Santa Claus and witches on halloween have nothing to do with God and Angels. There is a such thing as secular and religious, and the two shouldn’t be intermixed. Furthermore, decomposition does occur to your body, but that’s not the case for your soul. For your sake, you’d better be right about God.
   Also, I do agree that once a church has stepped into the secular arena of politics, then they should pay taxes. After all, the leaders of that church are endorsing political candidates that don’t always attend their particular churches. Sorry churches, but you shouldn’t be allowed to have it both ways at the expense of the taxpayers!

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10. 

    M.B.

    July 18, 2008

    democrat,
    I’ve read your stuff for a while now and you are not one to comment on intelligence. Fact is, you couldn’t pour your own urine out of your boots if the instructions were on the heel. Thanks for your input though.

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11. 

    Yo

    July 18, 2008

    Chris,
    I really don’t hate religion. I only think about it when some one else brings it up. It has about the same weight in my mind as not walking under a ladder or opening an umbrella in the house. That’s why I’d like you and democrate and the other folks with your heads in the hereafter to just keep it to yourselves. It’s an annoyance more than something that rises to a hate; like when you guys dip your heads and mumble something before you eat in public. It’s nice that you are greatful for your food, but come on. Others have to watch that little display. You seem like a good guy and I don’t want to offend you, so I’ll stop at that. But tell me one thing. I always though that you guys interperated the bible as strictly as you did the constitution so…Just what does turning the other cheek mean?

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12. 

    Chris

    July 18, 2008

    The bible is interpreted many different ways; just look around at how many different denominations there are. In my view, turn the other cheek means to forgive and/or not seek retribution when somebody hurts or wrongs you in a personal way. Forgiveness is fundamental to the Christian doctrine regardless of denomination.
    I understand that you don’t want to see or hear about religion. However, one can say that about anything. Religion is ingrained in American culture, and Christianity especially. What I’ve never understood is this: if you simply don’t believe and think those who do are fools, why care if others talk about it in your presence?
    I appreciate this little discussion – good luck to you.

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13. 

    democrat

    July 21, 2008

    M.B. you read my “stuff” because it’s intelligent and you enjoy it. Let’s not pretend.

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14. 

    W. Tieff

    July 21, 2008

    To “turn the other cheek” is obviously the single greatest and perpetually misinterpreted quote that Jesus of Nazareth was ever attributed. If interpreted as not seeking retribution for wrongdoing/forgiveness, it doesn’t make sense. Why the “other” cheek? What’s wrong with looking the other way with either cheek? Hmmm??? do you have any clue?
    I do.
    Because to “turn the other cheek” is an historical and archeological concept that refers to the differing punishments that were leveled upon persons of differing classes, or castes. To “turn” a cheek literally means to slap someone upside the head. Or at least it did 2000 years ago.. Now the upper-class would NEVER be slapped one side of their face, probably due to whichever opposing hand was the cultural norm for @ss-wiping. Slaves, peasants and criminals, on the other hand, were a different matter. They would routinely be disciplined with a slap (or worse) on the “other” cheek. Now what Jesus referred to when he admonished us all to “turn the other cheek” was the concept of equal justice. No favors or special treatment, and no undue harshness, either.
    Hope this clears it up.
    You’re welcome.

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15. 

    M.B.

    July 21, 2008

    democrat:
    Dude, are you gay? (Just trying to figure where you’re coming from.)
    M.B.

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16. 

    democrat

    July 22, 2008

    M.B. I’m not available, but thanks for your interest.

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17. 

    M.B.

    July 22, 2008

    democrat,
    I knew you were a fag…Thanks for saying it.
    M.B.

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18. 

    democrat

    July 22, 2008

    OOH M.B.!!!! Fag is such an ugly word, especially in relation to what I did to your mother last night:)

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19. 

    M.B.

    July 22, 2008

    democrat:
    I’m sorry, what would you prefer; queen, queer, faggot, puffter, sissy, fruit? You’re like an angry hairdresser, seeming to be all of those at once. Look you can have the last word. I feel like I’ve been soiling myself talking with you.
    M.B.

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20. 

    jg

    July 22, 2008

    W. Tieff,
    Thanks for setting this aright. Most people have no idea…
    A second aspect (assuming you were referring to Matt 5:39): We are commanded to forgive and forget about revenge for a personal insult. Make your enemy a friend by showing God to him. In addition to the point about equal justice, Jesus was calling us to a higher way of life through forgiveness and reconciliation between persons.
    The Bible is misinterpreted in many ways. Some think this passage enforces pacifism and forbids us from protecting ourselves and our own.

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