By Selwyn Duke

Mr. Duke:

Thanks for your essay, "The war on boys: Where feminists and men’s
rights activists go wrong" and for drawing attention to this issue.
I’m writing to say that, in my opinion, you’re off base in saying
that schools lack discipline and are all about "feel-good schemes."

My two older children at a normal, well-regarded middle school have a
police officer present at all times in their school, including
lunchtimes when I often eat with them. There is no lack of discipline
in this typical school. When I was in middle school. we had no police
officers on campus, by the way.

As far as ignoring instruction in favor of "self-esteem nonsense,"
again you are misinformed. In Texas, as in many other states today,
schools emphasize standardized testing in math and language. Kids are
drilled repetitively, often over the protests of teachers and others
who prefer a more free-form approach to education, in fundamental
skills. If their test scores don’t measure up the schools are closed
— it happened to a low-achieving high school this year in my town.

You and I agree that schools have failed boys. I don’t claim to know
how to fix it. But I don’t think your assessment of modern education
is quite accurate.

Thanks again. I hope you’re well. Call or write with questions.

MARK HENRICKS

Freelance Journalist

Accurate, Informative and Entertaining

Articles, Books and Columns

Dear Mr. Henricks,

Thank you for writing.  On an emotional level, I find it staggering that someone could adopt your position.  Intellectually, however, I understand the phenomenon: It is the result of modernism, the spirit of our age.

First, conditions in one school, your children’s, in no way serve as a refutation of a characterization of education in general.  I must say that I find it trying when people use the specific (anomalies, usually) to try to discredit fairly obvious statements about the general.  I’m well aware of the fact that, as with all things, there is variation among educational institutions.  For instance, in my area — a relatively wealthy neighborhood — there is more discipline in the schools and academic standards are higher than average.  This is because the children come from better homes than average and because parents of means demand a more rigorous educational environment.   However, this does not indicate that discipline and learning are what they could or should be, or what they once were.  Now let’s gain some perspective.

I don’t believe conditions in your children’s school are what they should be, either; what I do suspect is that they simply seem acceptable from the perspective of the modern man.  As to this, you cite the presence of a police officer as evidence that there is discipline in the institution.  Well, law enforcement officers are present in prisons as well.  Does this mean they’re all Devil’s Island?  Does it even mean that a structured environment exists within penitentiaries?  (I hope I don’t have to tell you what goes on inside modern penal systems.)  Police officers simply enforce standards as expressed through laws; they do not devise them.  Having the police enforce a lax standard only ensures nothing worse then its prescribed laxity.

Moreover, like you, there was no police officer present in school when I attended.  Why was this?  The fact that we have law enforcement in schools nowadays is not a reflection of better discipline, but of its lack.  It’s the same as in society in general: A civilized people doesn’t need a policeman on every corner, but barbarians can only be controlled by a police state. 

This phenomenon is a result of two related factors.  First, school teachers and administrators lack the ability, will and wisdom to enforce rules themselves (they’re also afraid of lawsuits), so they outsource the responsibility.  Second, behavior has broken down to a point where student transgressions are sometimes egregious enough to be legally actionable.  In other words, if you take care of the little things, the big things take care of themselves.  If minor violations aren’t tolerated and are rare, major ones will rarely even be contemplated.  This is the Broken Window Theory, which is actually a fact.  It’s a principle of man’s nature.

As to this, the main behavior problems in school in the 1950s were running in the hallways and chewing gum.  Ask yourself how we’ve degenerated to our current state.  Did it happen overnight?  Or, do you think maybe, just perhaps, it was a progression? 

Speaking of the 50s and police, think about something.  People of that era would have found the notion of having police officers in schools unfathomable.   Now, were they ridiculous to have such a mentality or are we so for fancying the intolerable normal?  Really, the idea that we have police — police — in schools speaks volumes.  And if you can’t think outside our very modern, very bizarre box and understand that, I don’t know what to tell you.

Next, you scoffed at my bemoaning the existence of feel-good schemes.  Do you think I made this up out of whole cloth?  Have you not heard of self-esteem training?  You do know they teach self-esteem theory in education schools, don’t you?  Have you not heard about the exercise wherein students are instructed to stand in front of their class and tell everyone what makes them "great"?  Do you not realize that curricula have been completely redesigned with self-esteem (especially that of girls — study the devolution of the SAT) as a guiding principle?  Yes, sure, schools are now drilling children in some traditional skills in an effort to comply with state standards, but why? 

It is much as with having police in schools: It’s a reaction to rapidly declining standards.  Many years ago we didn’t need such oversight because schools upheld proper standards as a matter of course.  And, yes, it’s a move back toward a measure of discipline, with the state imposing the structure some schools won’t.  But the underlying problem — the permissiveness that is a by-product of moral relativism, of our drift from tradition — remains.

Lastly, even when there is that move to re-impose discipline, it’s a mere shadow of what it should be.  Only, the modern man doesn’t thus view it because he’s so disconnected from the past.  It’s much as when I used to work with children and a certain parent marveled at my self-control.  I explained that if you run a tight ship, there is no misbehavior, there are no "battles," and, therefore, you never become agitated in the first place.  Well, he looked at me unbelievingly, as if the idea of kids being obedient was a fanciful concept.  That, sir, is a modernist.

As for your children’s school, do the students sit in class quietly and follow the rules?  Are they unflinchingly obedient to and respectful of the teachers?  If not, discipline is not what it should be, although it may seem so to veiled modern eyes.

I know, I’ve heard it before — I sound like an anachronism and want to resurrect the 19th century.  To be more accurate, though, I only want to put the Truth in action in all things, and I don’t really care if in one case it dictates a standard of the past and in another one of the present.  I only care that it’s correct.

Of course, civility, propriety and charity are also becoming outdated.  So maybe not all anachronisms are bad after all.

             Protected by Copyright

    

Posted in , , , ,

34 responses to “Reader Email: Fellow Journalist Takes Issue with “War on Boys” Piece”

  1. don't spare the rod Avatar
    don’t spare the rod

    I agree with Selwyn. Children who are naughty should be spanked, or paddled, or whipped with a switch until they obey. Rules must be followed. Limits set. Order enforced. Seig Heil!

    Like

  2. M.B. Avatar
    M.B.

    Duke writes…“First, school teachers and administrators lack the ability, will and wisdom to enforce rules themselves (they’re also afraid of lawsuits), so they outsource the responsibility.”
    Where exactly do these weak, unwise and ineffective (liberal, Marxist, socialist) slobs outsource that responsibility; to the parents perhaps?
    Maybe, if everyone just went to church all those problems would be solved. That is, unless there was some funny business going on in back. Well then… that is a whole other problem isn’t it, Selwyn?

    Like

  3. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    M.B., that line in itself lets us know that Selwyn lacks the congnitive ability to know that it begins where it should begin: with the parents. Why should the teachers be forced to discipline children when they have parents who should be doing that at home? Also, parents have checked out a long time ago, and it’s time that the law place parental responsibility back where it belongs: in the household. If parents were doing their jobs, then our schools wouldn’t be in such shambles.

    Like

  4. Chris Avatar
    Chris

    Wow, I’ve never seen so many people so seemingly against discipline. Yes, in a perfect world parents would offer sufficient discipline. Barring that, there needs to be stricter discipline in the schools. Children don’t need to get paddled in public schools, but even when I was in high school before the new millennium discipline was extremely lax. Since you can’t really force people to discipline their kids, we can at least have a strict environment in government mandated education. Right now it’s an absolute joke, where children are practically running the classroom and permitting the teacher to speak.

    Like

  5. Walt Avatar
    Walt

    It is the parent’s responsibility and right to instill discipline. Should it not be the parents right to responsibly choose by whom they are “educated”… and where? I want my representative portion of tax $$ and I want to choose where my child is schooled. Down with the NEA down with socialized education.

    Like

  6. W. Tieff Avatar

    Hey Democrat, you stated that Selwyn “lacks the cognitive ability..”
    WTF? Where do you get off making a statement like that? Have you not been reading his articles for very long? Mr. Duke has previously written on the subject of discipline starting with the parents. Furthermore, he addresses that very same issue later in THIS article! – When he talked of how to “run a tight ship”. The line you have focused on refers to how teachers and educators are “outsourcing” discipline not back to Parents, you moron, but further down the line to the Criminal Justice system. Now knock it off. Don’t post your small-minded disagreements before reading up and thinking it through. Oh wait. If you could actually think your way through anything at all you would’ve posted differently, I suspect.

    Like

  7.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    What fascinates me about democrat is he routinely bashes Mr. Duke’s intelligence (see the autism article for another example), yet judging by his commenting frequency he checks the site several times per day.
    Therefore he either makes a habit of reading the writings of imbeciles, which says much about his own intellect, or he secretly agrees with much of what Selwyn says, but doesn’t want to acknowledge that he shares opinions with we knuckle-dragging troglodytes so he says the opposite of what he believes. (My money’s on the latter explanation).

    Like

  8. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    no name: you would lose your money. I check these writing often for people such as yourself; those I fascinate.

    Like

  9. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    W. Tieff or WTF ever, you’re the moron because teachers can’t outsource anything to the criminal justice system. If there are police in the schools, the administrators are responsible for having them there, and they inform the teachers to utilize them if and when necessary. So do us all a favor and keep your moronic opinions to yourself, because it’s probably your kids whom they are called on.

    Like

  10. Mark Henricks Avatar
    Mark Henricks

    Mr. Duke:
    Certainly my own local school is not necessarily representative. However, consider the following:
    “Indicators of School Crime and Safety, 2006” from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and the National Center for Education Statistics.
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/iscs06.htm
    I think it’s fair to say that this report does not support your position.
    Mark Henricks

    Like

  11. W. Tieff Avatar

    Hey Dem,
    The ‘outsourcing’ concept is kinda metaphorical, to begin with. I don’t know why you fail to grasp the concept of discipline being kicked on down the line, as in the accountability for responsible upbringing being passed off from Parent, to T.V., to Teacher, to Deputy, and on and on… Maybe ‘outsourcing’ isn’t the best term. But I would think a Marxist like you would be able to easily understand the need for discipline established in the home, as it really is a form of Social engineering, in a way..
    P.S. – I don’t have any children yet. Just opinions, for now. Sorry for calling you a moron, I don’t usually lash out like that.

    Like

  12. ? Avatar
    ?

    Calling democrap a moron is being kind.

    Like

  13. HC Avatar
    HC

    Dummycrat, time to change the medication or up the dosage. LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER.
    PS how was your vacation in San-Fran?

    Like

  14. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    H.C., ask your mother.

    Like

  15. Kelly Avatar
    Kelly

    Thanks for the article Mr. Duke. It was very well written and wholeheartedly true! When I went to school in the 70’s, disrespecting teachers wasn’t a thought and if you did get in trouble, way worse WAS waiting for you at home from your parent. Cause back then grownups respected each other as well. Teacher was right and I was wrong!
    I dare say to take this further not to make a rant here. This problem isn’t just in the schools. Take for instance the apartment complex I live in now. You always get a disrepectful jerk from time to time (blasting stereos/TVs) , and the last place I was, dealt with them promptly and directly. They let them know right away that they would be evicted if complaints continued. It was a great place to live. Unfortunately for me the rent was raised too high to stay so I moved to a place across the street. I told the new place at signing that quiet was a priority for me and she told me that this one apt is perfect, 2 older men on either side and noone above me. Well that Nobody above me has proved to be the “Jerk of the Year” and the best part is, no one will deal with him. And its cause they are afraid of the little gang banger wanna be. They told me they take complaints seriously but the rules keep changing for me. First it was 3 strikes and they are out, then it had to be 3 different people witness it. Then it changed to one has to be the security guard. Now I am calling the cops on him cause he got my phn number from my name on the buidling directory and he has left nasty messages. His BS has escalated cause noone will deal with him!! He might here soon end up having to pay rent from a jail cell. The dope we have for a manager keeps asking “Well what if he retaliates?” And I told her, “You are the problem, idiot! He now knows how weak you are about issues and so he probably will!” Now lucky me only has to put up with him till October cause she has promised me she won’t renew his lease. What a gal! She is from Canada so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at her lack of discipline. But this is the very same problem we are talking about. Now this 20 something idiot (with the high self esteem no doubt from his actions) has never apparently had boundaries set and will retalliate himself right to jail if he keeps messing with me cause I am NOT afraid of him! The very first time, I went upstairs and asked him please not to play the stereo so people in India could hear it too. It is so sad that it has to escalate to manager, security, now cops because his high self esteem allows him no empathy or respect for others.
    And don’t even get me started about these whiners in the work place now!! You can definitely tell the new self esteem teaching started in the now 20 somethings schooling. So do tell me, if everyone in this generation is on pedastal, who will be there to look up at them? SAD SAD SAD!

    Like

  16. M.B. Avatar
    M.B.

    Odd that democrat is always mentioning people’s mothers. They along with little boys and turning America into a socialist state seem to fascinate him. It explains his Momma’s- Boy attitude on things. I would like to meet his mother…but I don’t go to brothels.

    Like

  17. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    M.B., you mean nobody does you! Anyway, even if you met her, you wouldn’t be her type. Sorry, but she likes real men, not soft-shoing patsies disguised as men.

    Like

  18. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    And besides M.B., I normally don’t do whores, but your mother was great!

    Like

  19. M.B Avatar
    M.B

    fagocart,
    Unraveling a bit aren’t you Mary?

    Like

  20. HC Avatar
    HC

    Dear Mary- err I mean Dummycrat, your 2 fathers should be brimming with pride. They’ve raised a real momma-hating boy-loving class act.

    Like

  21. W. Tieff Avatar

    Alright, alright… Settle down everyone..
    This is getting stupid. Not worthy of this website by any stretch of the imagination!
    Knock it off. (setting boundaries right F’n now..)

    Like

  22. Bill Avatar
    Bill

    Mr. Tieff,
    If a vile, disgusting thing crawled out of a drain and you found it inching along your computer screen leaving behind a trail of slime, you’d do something to keep it from slithering onto to your keyboard and typing a message reflective of itself, wouldn’t you?
    You’d flick it onto the floor and stomp on it heartily with the sole of your boot. And then, with some bleach, strong soap and paper towels, you’d wipe up the gooey mess and toss it all promptly into the trash…now wouldn’t you?
    It’s the same thing with democrat and the trail of slime he posts every single time he gets onto this site. For the most part, the festering trash he writes goes unchallenged; sometimes it’s addressed as if it is coming from a person rather than an unrecognizably low creature from under the ground.
    Democrat is an unrecognizably low creature. It is time he is recognized for what he is; that the perversity of his nature is confronted and he is stomped heartily with the sole of a boot.
    I’ve followed your posts for a while. I have to admit, I didn’t catch on at first. But, I’ve come to think of you as a fairly class act. (Are you in the U.K.?)
    But, you are wrong on this one! Every time democrat opens his filthy mouth and excretes his disgusting voice, somebody should flick him off the computer screen like the nauseating sewer dweller he is.
    Best regards,
    Bill Hennessy

    Like

  23. Zack Avatar
    Zack

    Bill H.,
    Demomarist is a dirty job. You’re right though. Someone’s got to do it.

    Like

  24. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    It’s too bad that neither one of you really has the balls to do what bill says. The only thing you can say is to try to attach me to homosexuality because I see women’s points of view on wanting equal pay. The funny thing is if men such as yourself hate women so much that you want to make them feel inferior to you, then what does that really say about your self-esteem? I don’t care what you call me, the fact remains that women don’t threaten me as much as it’s obvious that they do you, so Bill, never-had-a-date-Zack, and M.B., you all are proving that you really lack the true meaning of manhood by allowing the presence of women and equal pay scare you. Your mothers are probably ashamed, that is, if they aren’t required to wear burqua’s and walk 3 feet behind you. You guys are idiots who really should have been born back in the 1800’s because that way, the world would be done with you by now.

    Like

  25. Xander Avatar
    Xander

    Democrat, you miss the point of the whole women-in-the-workplace debate. The viewpoint of intelligent conservatives isn’t that womens’ wages should be kept artificially low. Women should pull equal pay in jobs that they are equally-well-equipped to do. Physically demanding jobs like police fieldwork and firefighting are exceptions, because women lack the natural talents that men do, and are thus less capable in those fields. In addition, man’s aggressive nature is a boon in the business world, and his risk-taking tendencies often yield great discoveries in the scientific disciplines. On the other hand, I don’t think that men should pull the same pay in fields in which empathy and emotional intelligence are valued (such as nursing and social work). I say “equal pay for equal work” only when equal work actually is being put forth.
    What the majority of conservatives believe is that although women are equally capable of working in many fields and should receive equal wages should they choose to do so, both individuals and the greater society benefit more greatly when women do the things that, despite their great importance, have been deemed degrading by 40 years of radical, man-hating feminism. As you can probably guess, I’m referring to keeping a well-maintained home and rearing well-adjusted and virtuous children. Men and women simply have different strengths, and they should play to them for the greater good.
    I think the best analogy for this argument can be found in football. Although a wide receiver could potentially fulfill a quarterback’s duties better than the Average Joe on the street, he can’t quite measure up to the quarterback in that position, nor can the quarterback catch passes like a receiver. The team prospers when each member recognizes his (or her) personal strengths and applies him- or herself to them.

    Like

  26. Cowboy Avatar
    Cowboy

    democrat you insect, just stop running your mouth.

    Like

  27. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    Xander, thanks for your comment, but I am not the one missing the point. Of course, as I’ve stated before, that men and women are different and they have different talents, however, that should not bar them from having equal pay especially if there is a proven fact that they can do the job just as well as a man could. What I’m actually responding to are some of the comments concerning my position on the topic. Just because I’m empathetic with their plight doesn’t mean that I am in any way a homosexual, as some of the women-hating conservatives have said about me. I think that if you truly are to have an intelligent conversation about something, whether people agree on it or not, shouldn’t result in men calling someone an effeminate. When people stop saying that any “soft” position on women or equal pay is something to be associated with weakness or homosexuality and it’s condoned by people, then there’s something wrong with that. Perhaps you should not be addressing me, but save your comments for those women-hating homophobes (who are probably homosexuals themselves).

    Like

  28. democrat Avatar
    democrat

    Cowboy, due to your extremely unintelligent and highly immature dialect, don’t address me any more unless you are accompanied by an adult.

    Like

  29. Tranny Alice Avatar
    Tranny Alice

    democrat honey,
    Go shave your legs sweetie. You might as well. Everybody knows.

    Like

  30. ? Avatar
    ?

    Xander…Better be careful with everybody’s favorite liberal (our very own democrat) when talking about “the team.” He doesn’t play on the right one himself, if you know what I mean. Thing about that guy is, liberalism isn’t his only mental disorder.

    Like

  31. gay&proud Avatar
    gay&proud

    Can you morons on this homophobic site do something other than bash democrat’s lifestyle? Homosexuality is something you are born with. He just didn’t wake up one day and decide to be gay.

    Like

  32. Cowboy Avatar
    Cowboy

    Yea, you and democrat can’t help being perverts. It’s in your jeans, right?

    Like

  33. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    What the heck is going on here? This is my second post on as many subjects and I can’t believe some of the personal attacks being aimed at both sides of the issues. We are dumbing down this website and behaving like those we have contempt for in the House and Senate, on both sides of the aisle. No one’s mother needs to be criticized, nor their sexuallity. Let’s get back to responsible commentary. No one is enlightened or educated with hate spewed posts.
    I am an Independent Conservative and was taught as a child that those who revert to name calling and using profanity liberally lack the education to express an opinion otherwise.
    Both parties (Dems and Repubs) share the blame for the mess we are in as a country. Each of them cater to the extremes of their respective parties and neither has recognized that the majority of Americans fall somewhere in between the two (the great- unheard).
    I am looking forward to the day when WE get a voice, but until then I will pray for us as a nation.

    Like

  34. fatjoefan Avatar
    fatjoefan

    You are right. We should be talking about Michael Savage and autism!

    Like

Leave a reply to W. Tieff Cancel reply