6 responses to “Spreading Christianity in Dar al-Islam”

1. 

   al

   May 8, 2009

   Middle Easterners simply don’t think the way Westerners do for reasons both cultural and religious. I’d have to say that demonstrating that American’s have a religious creed can have good results but also that the manner of communicating those beliefs should be considered carefully. That being said, I really find it hard to believe our troops are taking unsanctioned risks by proselytizing. Either this isn’t happening thus the story has been generated for some other purpose or it is being done deliberately to demonstrate that many Westerners do have a religion.
   On the subject of decadence that you mention frequently wrt Islam, I think you approach it from a Christian perspective that involves scrupulous adherence to a moral code going so far as to dictate discipline of thoughts as well as actions. While Muslims don’t challenge any aspect of their faith, and are punctilious about ritual observances, I’m not certain they ever reconcile the accounts so to speak with behavior prohibited by the Koran and behavior condoned by their immediate community. The latter seems to prevail so as long as group harmony is maintained and rituals are dutifully observed, Muslim males in particular have a wide latitude in their behavior. Many are also surprisingly tolerant of Western females’ freedoms sexual and otherwise though will stop short of marrying a woman who of course can’t be a good Muslim wife – socioeconomic background also comes into play, Muslim men from most countries will respect a libertine female who goes to Harvard and drives a Lexus.
   Thus, I believe you have not quite caught what the Muslims mean by decadence. For instance, I went inside an internet kiosk while in Eastern Europe that I only slowly realized was also a place where men could come and view porn (There were also self-serve laundry facilities so who would expect diversification into porn as well?). The guy running the place was obviously a Middle Easterner: no doubt he and his friends would view porn to their hearts content except during the Ramadan fasting without ever feeling guilt about it in the way a Christian would. Don’t forget that here in the US, Muslims will comfortably run businesses in areas where many of their best customers are drug dealers and prostitutes and be proud of their financial success despite the squalid surroundings where Christians might avoid working for fear of spiritual contamination or shame.
   Instead, I think “decadence” is a code word for disordered relationships when used by Muslims. Though there are certainly some differences from country to country, Muslim societies are collectivist and subsequently hierarchical in nature. Remaining in good standing with one’s family and peers is paramount. You’d have to observe cultural norms that may or may not fit well with religious dictates in order to get to the nitty gritty of the Muslim value system. In other words, don’t get too caught up in the words of the Koran unless you are dealing with a specific group of religious extremists. Concepts like purity vs decadence don’t connote the same things to Muslims that they do to Christians: These can probably be replaced by respect vs disrespect and honor.
   I believe we’d go a long way towards getting respect from Muslims by refusing to let them ignore our laws or manipulate our legal system. What may be most unfortunate is that the mass immigration of Muslims didn’t occur in the 50s when most all European nations were authoritarian and unapologetically ethnocentric. In years past, Muslims could and would adapt readily to the norms of Western society. It’s not the Muslim strength or the debatable existence of a fundamentalist Muslim purity that makes us vulnerable to them rather it’s our fear of enforcing our own laws and our insistence on pandering to the whims of ethnocentric immigrants that causes them to disrespect us. They rightly sense a power vacuum in Western nations and are more than willing to fill it which is going to cause more and more instability here and abroad. So much could be solved if we just sent the message “this is who we are; this is the way we do things”(tattoos, nose rings and all ) and brook no argument.

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2. 

   Walt

   May 8, 2009

   Al,
   Welcome. I really enjoyed reading your comment and I must say I agree with you. We must not bend our culture to suit the Muslims or any other foreign culture or sect.
   PS. Nice article Selwyn

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3. 

   Philip France

   May 8, 2009

   Al,
   I second Walt’s sentiments. It’s too bad that you are not the “Al” from “Al Jazeera” or “Al Arabia”.
   You brought up some interesting and provocative points of which I have little or no argument. You offered no solution, though.
   Please consider my proposal:
   The answer is Christ. Christ Jesus, the Nazarene.
   Christian doctrine holds that we are all sinners. It does not distinguish whether or not we are Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindis, atheists, agnostics, wiccans or tree-huggers. All have sinned and all have fallen short of the glory of God.
   We are all vulnerable to the same lusts and urges as the most vile deviants, although most of us constrain these urges more effectively than others.
   In the most unimaginable and unspeakable act of love and charity, Our Heavenly Father offered up his only begotten Son as a human sacrifice that absolves us of our sins for which all of us are guilty and condemned. All of us. Condemned to death. Without Christ we are dead men walking. He was innocent blood shed for the guilty and fulfilled, with finality, the laws of the Old Testament to which Jews, Christians and Moslems proscribe.
   Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the son of the living and one true God. God is the creator of the heavens and the earth and Jesus of Nazareth is his son and our Lord. Whether we like it or not or whether we believe it or not. Why not join the side that will win? All that it takes is that we believe that it is so and it is so.
   Ridicule me at your peril. Embrace me at the risk of eternal reward. May our Eternal God bless the United States of America. May he also abundantly bless the champions of His liberty that are Selwyn Duke, Michael Savage, their audiences and, thankfully, me.

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4. 

   Yusuf

   May 9, 2009

   Al I think you miss the point entirely. Selwyn believes that Jesus is the Son of God, the thrid peron of the Holy Trinity. He belives that Islam is a religion like created by a guy who lived six centuries after Christ in a town that was 1/3 pagan, 1/3 Christian and 1/3 Jewish. Mohammed went into a cave an came out with a book (The Kroan) that was a synthesis of the three religions.
   I am sure Selwyn would admit that out of such a big like, as Islam is, comes a little bit good. It is that little bit of good that you hold on to so tightly.
   Make no mistake about it, Selwyn is a Devout Catholic who belives Islam is a big lie.
   Finally, Sewlyn is a man of love who wishes nobody harm. It would be his ultimate joy to free the islamic world from the lie of Islam. But, he is also a pragmitist. And just like the Christendom has had to do in the past, It will probably have to defend itself militarily who has never converted any country without the sword.
   The fact that, as you say, young Arab men are more than willing to have sex with Western women and watch Western porn, doesn’t really help your argument. Actually it quite pathetic.
   BTW, Last time I checked their were plenty of prostitutes in the Middle East.
   Ultimately, the Muslim mind cannot except that God would allow himself to be nailed to cross and die a horrible death for our sins.

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5. 

   polysci

   May 9, 2009

   Everyone with a brain knows that islam is a cult religion. It’s the only “religion” whose prophet allows the mass murders of people, mostly innocent, based on “perceived” persecutions. Until they have been systematically and ethnically cleansed like they are doing to the black Sudanese now and like the Jews of Europe in the past, then they have not been persecuted. Just because someone drew a disparaging portrait of their prophet in England, they were calling for the murder of the artist. People say disparaging things about Jesus and God all the time, but you don’t see Christians gathering in the streets promoting the murders of atheists and the like. It’s obvious that these people are not playing with a full deck, and should be banished to the middle east, leaving the remainder of the civilized alone.

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6. 

   al

   May 10, 2009

   “The fact that, as you say, young Arab men are more than willing to have sex with Western women and watch Western porn, doesn’t really help your argument. Actually it quite pathetic.”
   Gee, Yusuf, I don’t think I argued that we had nothing to worry about b/c of Arab sexual mores. My point was that presenting ourselves as morally pure in order to prove our worth to radical Muslims is completely unnecessary. I think some devout Catholics like Selwyn are using this ploy to improve morals in general by claiming they are part of the war on terror.
   Like I actually said, Muslim notions of decadence aren’t like our notions of decadence so you don’t have to hide the porn or throw the women in burkas on their account. They will respect us more if we demonstrate leadership by not being afraid to enforce our laws than if we put on displays of religiosity. I wasn’t implying that debauchery on the part of Muslims makes them good citizens. On the contrary, many have a relativistic attitude toward behavior Westerners view as corrupt or criminal.
   Some mistakenly view Islam as similar to earlier versions of Christianity. I don’t. Plus I’m fascinated with what I consider the disconnect between the behavior Muslims can indulge and still be in good standing religion wise and the unquestioning acceptance of Islam. It speaks volumes about our differing cultures. And as you observe pre-literate Muslims, they are both more puritanical about morality while also being more violent and atavistic which was never the case with Christianity.
   “It’s obvious that these people are not playing with a full deck, and should be banished to the middle east, leaving the remainder of the civilized alone.” – polysci
   I agree. The tribal groups from places like Somalia can’t cope in the modern world while the elites who immigrated to Western nations in decades past prefer oligarchies to democracies. I think Tony Blair broached the subject of economic immigration a few years back wrt middle easterners, etc, coming to England only in pursuit of wealth rather than out of the desire to live in a democracy. Of course nothing came of it. Then there’s the US policy of encouraging immigration of people who are essentially savages. Doesn’t seem like a good idea no matter what their religion.

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