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Liberals’ Lies about Religion in American History

Become a big liar often enough and you start to believe yourself

Pinnochio2 By Selwyn Duke

When I was in high school in the early 1980s, I knew that my education
was a cakewalk as compared to that of two generations earlier. And I
assumed the other teens knew this, too. It took me a while to understand
that many people are so immersed in their age that, to them, history is
a mystery. How does one understand a past he has never experienced?
Here’s how I explain it: If a doctor knows the pathology of a certain
disease, can’t he look at a patient with an advanced case of it and tell
you what the symptoms would have been during the early stages?

So it is with civilization. If you understand what social disease
ails yours, you can “run the tape backwards” and have a good idea what
the state of the patient was many years before. This brings us to the
subject of creeping secularism and religion in America.

Read the rest here.

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19 responses to “Liberals’ Lies about Religion in American History”

  1. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    Another terrific article by Selwyn Duke.
    I have spent the last several weeks immersed in the study of ID (Intelligent Design) theory. In doing so, I have examined the works of great minds such as Stephen Jay Gould, Dean Kenyon (who once wrote a prominent book on the “chance” hypothesis), Stephen C. Meyer, David Berlinsky (a secular Jew), Michael Behe, William Dembski, Jonathan Wells and more in support of ID. I have also considered the works of the more vocal opponents of ID and supporters of the truly outrageous “chance” hypothesis such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (to name just two).
    In my observations, Dr. Meyer et al have proposed their theories based on sound scientific evidence and elaborate mathematical calculations (which serve to prove what should be abundantly obvious) and present their points in cogent, articulate and dispassionate ways. They do this while showing great homage to past theories and always respecting their opposition.
    Dr. Meyer and his colleagues reiterate their findings are that ID is “the best” (not the ONLY) explanation for the origin of life. They do not invoke a “God” or a “Deity” but rather admit that these findings have theistic implications. They repeat that this is a separate argument from the theory. Yet ID opponents go straight to that conclusion and ignore the science!
    Critics such as Dawkins and Hitchens, while occasionally invoking science, history and methodology, nearly always resort to slander, libel and childish insults.
    Thus far, I have concluded that atheism is a religion and its most vocal proponents are more fanatical than any Christian or Jew (as well as a majority of Moslems). I have heard Dr. Michael Savage, PhD refer to the modern “liberal”-secular humanist as having their optic chiasma inverted. The optic chiasma is the apparatus by which optic nerves send signals to the brain. Dr. Savage has it exactly right. Now get this:
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 the EYES OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING being enlightened; that ye may KNOW what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.
    Ephesians 1:17-20.
    Congratulations to Selwyn Duke for another terrific article.

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  2. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    Here are more profound thoughts relating to Selwyn’s artcile and my subsequent post:
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/05/waking_from_darwins_dream_rich035101.html

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  3. Robert Berger Avatar
    Robert Berger

    Public schools are places for teaching,not preaching.
    Students can pray all they want in church or at home,or silently to themselves.
    America is now a highly diverse nation religiously.
    Are students who come from Jewish,Muslim,Hindu,Buddhist,atheist and agnostic homes
    supposed to sit through Bible readings and participate in Christian prayers in our public schools? The notion that the removal of prayer from schools caused a decline in general morality in US society is just plain ludicrous.
    When I went to public schools on Long Island during the 60s and early 70s, the lack of school prayer didn’t turn any of us kids into criminals or drug users etc.
    We all just kept our religious beliefs to ourselves.
    Religion is a personal matter; the government and our schools have no business trying to indoctrinate young peope in matters of religion.

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  4. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    Beware the sound of one hand clapping.
    Robert Berger said: “The notion that the removal of prayer from schools caused a decline in general morality in US society is just plain ludicrous.”
    Robert, just because you say that a notion is “ludicrous” does not make it so. In fact, in dealing with you in the past, quite the opposite is true. Where are your facts, data and statistics to support such a claim? Answer: you don’t have them. You made it up.
    Selwyn’s article dealt with correcting the revisionist history of school textbooks that denied the facts that our Nation was founded on profoundly Christian concepts. Are you denying these facts? If not, how is it wrong to teach accurate historical facts about the nature of its founding? If you are denying these facts, you are nothing more than a hopeless gainsayer.

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  5. Robert Berger Avatar
    Robert Berger

    The statement that “Our nation was founded on profoundly Christian concepts” is just an excuse used by conservatives like you to allow religion to get too much power in America.
    Everything religious conservatives say about the supposed religious beliefs of the founding fathers is patently false.None of them was an evangelistic Christian of the kind which is so common in America today. They were all vehemently opposed to allowing America to be founded as a theocracy,and wiould be horrified to see the posinous agenda of the religious right in America today.
    They all believed that religion was a private matter for individual people, and that the government must be religiously neutral.The quotes o religion by them have been taken completely out of context by religious conservatives and misconstrued for the purpoises of the religious right.
    I went to schools without prayer, and yet they were perfectly orderly places, the fact that there is so much crime and disorder in SOME schools today has absolutely nothing to do with school prayer or its absense.
    Religious conservatives have their OWN agenda for school texts,and if they got their way they would give students an equally distorted picture of American history. We need accurate and balanced teaching of this subject in schools.

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  6. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    Robert,
    You are a twisted sister. Please tell us which history books inspired your perverted understanding of the founding of this nation, its founders and our founding documents.
    I went to a parochial school which DID include school prayer. My fellow students and I outperformed our public school neighbors by whopping sums. Certainly this cannot be attributed entirely by the practice of prayer, but surely some of it could.
    Private schools that practice prayer routinely trounce public schools in overall performance, individual grade-point average and SAT scores.
    You lose.

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  7. Shaun Avatar
    Shaun

    Selwyn,
    Once again a stellar article. Your clarification of often unknown history is very well appreciated. I just finished “A Patriot’s history of the United States” by Larry Schweikart. In this book Larry portrays as much as can be shown about the faith of our country’s founders. So much information that is never shared about the faith of good men and women. My favorite is when our science books try to overlook the abundant faith of Isaac Newton. Although not directly related to America, I remember my physical science book trashed ID, creationism, etc, but when it came to Isaac Newton they lavished many praises about the man while completely ignoring his faith. IIRC, Isaac Newton predicted the end of the world in 2060?
    Robert,
    As usual, Your so far from the point its laughable. This is an article showing the christian roots of our great country. This is not Selwyn arguing for forced religious indoctrination in public schools. Dont worry, I just had a meeting with the far right christian theocrats and they are holding off the revolution for a couple more years. You’ve got some breathing room, but not much.
    Shaun

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  8. jbailey Avatar
    jbailey

    I have the deepest respect for your opinion. I happen to disagree. First of all, a great part of our “conscious” development is rooted in a belief of a “Higher Power”, a Creator, God. It seems that a great vacuum exist today in a kind of “collective” abscence of a conscious. It’s OK to decieve, cheat, lie, steal, etc., to name only a few. A person seems to do these things without the feeling of guilt in anyway. Look around you…even the highest office in this land seems at home with such tints of this behavior. Trying to get a channel on cable at night without openly seeing a couple screwing is hard to do. You are missing it, Sir. We now are bordering on a society of collective psychopaths…no conscious at all. In High School, we had several different faiths….including many of the Jewish Faith. No one felt they “had” to listen to any “indoctrination”. What they did listen to was a central theme…”be somebody”, “work to earn a living”, “treat your fellow man, as you would have them treat you”, etc. Was that bad? If you were a “socialist” or a “communist”, you might have problems with it…as most socialist/communist are basically “atheist”. Actually, we didn’t look at each other as being any “kind” of religion, or even to being an atheist. I think we were as normal as you could get. Some of us “got out of hand”, had “aggressive behavioral problems”, tried to “disrupt” the classroom, or even “layed out of school”.
    You know what “turned around” a lot of attitude problems? Not expensive psychotherapy, but the “paddle” and a re-enforcement of that discipline when they got home….plus, “the indoctrination” as you put it, of “being somebody”, “taking responsibility for what you do”, “working to earn a living”. Opportunity for everyone…the outcomes depending on “self” expression and application of “God Given” talents to achieve. I strongly disagree with most of what you say. We grew up very poor…let me tell you what our class produced. Attorneys, judges…one female, physicians..two eye surgeons and one cardiac surgeon…authors, professors, economists, small business owners, mill workers, farmers, missionaries, Priest, preachers, chemist, research scientist, engineers, inventors, newspaper editor, reporter, auto mechanics, metal workers, chefs and restaurant owners, nurses, coaches…one a college coach, and another, a famous high school coach. In fact, a movie was made of his compassion..called Radio. As we progressed in years, we looked back, and thanked God for the opportunity to have been raised among such an outstanding, hard working, God fearing, group of folks….to the tune that we raised over $250K to help poor boys and girls, just like we were. NO, I reject your premise…and would stand up to defend your rights to think and say what you will…and, as many of us did, we went forward, with pride and honor to defend the nation and ALL it’s citizens. God Bless our troops, and all those who stand up for our free enterprise capitalist system. A system where the poorest can succeed, and feel proud of his or her accomplisments.
    jbailey6@aol.com

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  9. Robert Berger Avatar
    Robert Berger

    Phil,it’s true that parochial schools do tend to get better academic performances out of kids,but this is not because of religious indoctrination.
    It’s because of the strict discipline they demand from students there.
    And yes, religion shpuld be a matter for individual people. The government has absolutely no business forcing schools to indoctrinate kids through prayer and Bible readings. Rewligious instruction is something for parents and churches,not our schools.
    I’m not an atheist, and not a Marxist or communist.
    I’m not the kind of doctrinaire politically correct,multicultural,America -hating, blame the US for all the world’s ills,paranoid about racism and sexism,
    etc left-winger conservatives like to caricature.
    I’m a non-observant secular Jew, but as I said,not an atheist. But if I had kids, I would not want them to go to the kind of public schools people like Selwyn and Phil advocate for America.
    And yes, conservatives want to revise US history for their own purposes. And they want kids to get their kind of revisionist history which would be just as distorted and one-sided as history teaching of the multicultural and politically correct kind.
    They need to learn US and world history in a fair,balanced and accurate way.

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  10. Shaun Avatar
    Shaun

    A much more balanced and rationale reply then most of yours Robert. I’ve said this before, but repeating is okay too. I, Philip (correct me If Im wrong), and presumably Selwyn don’t advocate for a theocracy or forced indoctrination of kids. Kids should be taught the christian roots are country was founded on. They should understand that to our framers it was a deep trust in God that gave us our sense of greatness. We were an honorable country that honored God and we were blessed because of it.
    I would abhor trying to indoctrinate minds to any cause especially when they are kids that are incapable of deep understanding. There shouldn’t be any state mandated religious services. However, services could be freely offered inside public domain. I want a country with a small government that allows me to live my life as free as I desire. I want my children to go to schools to learn facts and discuss different viewpoints. Leave the religious teaching to me and my wife. I think you would enjoy my America quite a bit.

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  11. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    In support of Shaun’s point (to a point) is this:
    History is what happened. History is preserved by recorded facts of what actually happened and it serves as a lesson as to what to embrace and what to avoid in the present and the future.
    What Robert does not understand is that we are all entitled to our opinions but we are NOT entitled to our own FACTS. Selwyn’s article dealt with the reaffirmation of the FACTS that our founders and our founding documents are profoundly Christian. Whether or not Mr. Berger agrees that was a good or bad thing is immaterial. Facts are facts. One’s intepretation of the facts does not change the reality of them by one jot or one tittle.
    The facts are indisputable: Our nation, the greatest in our earth’s history, was founded on profoundly Christian concepts. I have referrred previously to the great volume by Benjamin F, Morris “The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States”. This premise is abundantly evident in our nation’s founding, our founding Fathers and in our founding documents.
    This leaves Mr. Berger only three choices:
    1. Accpet the facts and embrace that our country (and its founding) is profoundly Christian.
    2. Move to an athiestic nation such as North Korea and/or Zimbabwe.
    3. Admit that you are wrong and shut the hell up.
    I would gladly accept and respect and embrace any of the above decisions. However, this argument goes much further.
    Presently, the teaching of Intelligent Design Theory is “streng verboten” (strongly forbidden) from being taught in our public school classrooms. ID theory does not advocate a deity (although the implications suggest one). Yet this theory is presently the best (although not the ONLY) explanation of the earliest life forms on earth. Why should our children not be aware of this competing explanation of our origins?
    Is it no less religious to only teach them Darwinian evolutionary theory, to the exclusion of all other competing theories? This, Mr. Berger, is the Theocracy that you so dread. This Theocracy claims that secular humanism and natural mechanisms are the only valid explanations of the origins of life (despite oceans of contrary evidence). You should know by your own human experience that such thinking is abundantly absurd.
    Lastly, if we were to abandon the teaching of our profoundly Christian heritage and to embrace the neutrality of revisionist history we would create a spiritual vacuum. This vacuum will thence be fulfilled by a militant theocracy: Islam.
    You had better start growing your beard and start figuring out which direction that Mecca is and start shopping for a prayer rug.

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  12. Robert Berger Avatar
    Robert Berger

    Phil, these are not “my” facts. If you REALKLY examine what the founding fathers said,you will realize that it’s true-none had religious beliefs remotely similar to conservative Christians today.
    Jefferson had a low opinion of Christian dogma,and admire Christ greatly but not conventional Christian dogma. In fact, he was often accused of being an atheist. George Washington was not particularly religious at all.Nor was Ben Franklin.
    Phil,you have been completely hoodwinked about the founding fathers.
    Look,I don’t condemn you merely for being a devout Christian, or any one else.You’re absolutely entitled to your religious beliefs and views and to worship as you choose.
    But what disturbs me and other non-conservatives is the self-righteous way you and other religious conservatives use the Bible,quotes taken out of context by the founding fathers etc to justify your social conservative agenda of limiting religious freedom for non-christians,making the Bible the basis of US law(something which the founding fathers were absolutely opposed to) and turning America into a place where the government is free to pry into the bedrooms of private citizens,take away the rights of gay people,interfere with women’s reproductive rights,censor and ban films,talevision,books,and the internet etcall in the name of supposedly restoring “morality”,”religious freedom”,to thwart vital medical and scientific research because of religious obscurantism, and to make this country a “christian nation”.
    I would not want to live in the kind of America people like you envision.

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  13. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    Robert,
    You are out of your mind. I do not mean this as an insult or to be hurtful. I believe that you are insane. Your knowledge of history appears to come from Herbert Marcuse and I doubt that you could distinguish between a Bible verse from a Dr. Suess story.
    How dare you disparage and discredit the legacy and the deep faith of our founders. Have you never read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution or the Bill of Rights? These documents are nearly as Godly as The Bible itself.
    You would be wise to have your therapist modify your Lithium prescription. You are going off of the rails.

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  14. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    No there was no prayer in public schools at that time in our history. But the big difference at the time was that we didn’t put down christians for thier beliefs.
    We didn’t wear our hearts on our sleeves and look for anything someone might say that would or will offend us.
    We respected eachother and life had value, even the life of the unborn.
    Secularism has devalued so many things in our society we no longer value much of anything.
    Deny the past and you deny your future. This country was founded on the belief of an all powerful being or power no matter what name you put upon it.
    To try to hide that fact is folly, it will come back to haunt you one day.
    No one is talking about Bible readings or just christian prayers in school. The immigrants to this country need to stop trying to change this country into what it was they came here to get away from. If where they came from was so great they should turn around and go back. I give them permission to leave.

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  15. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    Fair and balanced would be decided by whom? You?

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  16. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    Here, Here.

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  17. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    @ Steve
    Welcome to the discussion. You express yourself well and you demonstrate the sound and sober understanding of civil society that all but a select few demonstrate in posting at this site.
    I look forward to future posts by you.
    God bless,
    Philip France

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  18. Robert Berger Avatar
    Robert Berger

    Phil,I’m not the least bit out of my mind,nor am I “disaparaging” the founding fathers in any way.I’m merely stating fact.
    America was never intended to be a nation based on Christian dogma.This is a fact. The founding fathers wanted religious freedom for all Americans.
    I have no problem with individual people being Christian,of what ever denomination. But like many other non-conservatives,I fear intolerant and fanatical Christian organizations getting power in America and turning this nation into a theocracy.
    Don’t think this is is impossible.
    I’m not a Christian and have never been one,and I don’t want any one interfering with my rights as an American and imposing Christian dogma as law.

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  19. Philip France Avatar
    Philip France

    Robert Berger said…
    “Phil,I’m not the least bit out of my mind,”
    Robert, a lunatic cannot self-diagnose himself. You are out of your mind. You are a raving lunatic that is a danger to society at large and likely a danger to yourself. I intend to prove it, using your own “thoughts” (if they can even be called that).
    Robert Berger said: “nor am I “disaparaging” the founding fathers in any way.I’m merely stating fact.”
    You are INDEED disparaging our Founders to suggest that they were not profoundly Christian. Stating fact? How DARE you? You do not even demonstrate that you can cognately discern fact from fiction. You are the sound of one hand clapping. You are detached from reality.
    Robert Berger said: “America was never intended to be a nation based on Christian dogma.This is a fact.” No sir, this is a LIE. And you have swallowed it and you suffer from the rot that your belief system deludes you with.
    Robert Berger said: “The founding fathers wanted religious freedom for all Americans.” Yayyyyyyyy! You finally got one right! But what you fail to demonstrate is the distinction between the word “for” (as in freedom “FOR ALL Americans” – your words) and freedom FROM religion (your attitude and worldview).
    Robert Berger said: “I have no problem with individual people being Christian,of what ever denomination. But like many other non-conservatives,I fear intolerant and fanatical Christian organizations getting power in America and turning this nation into a theocracy.”.
    You surely do (have a problem). You attack Christians and religion in general at every opportunity. You do so, at the very least, by suggesting that some/any Christian group advocates for a theocracy. Now, name ONE – just ONE Christian organization that is: a) intolerant. b) fanatical. c) is lobbying for governmental power. If you had any sense at all, you would understand that the establishment clause in our Constitution was not concerned with a possible theocracy, but rather that some secular monarch and/or tyrant would impose a singular religion/denomination on the people. That would include secularism and atheism, both of which are religions.
    You surely have never learned about the St. Bartholomew Massacre in 16th Century France nor the tumult that ensued with British monarchs beginning with King Henry VIII and the succeeding heirs to the British crown who for centuries see-sawed its subjects from a “national religion” (in this case Roman Catholicism and the Anglican/Episcopalian Church).
    Robert Berger said: “Don’t think this is is impossible.” Robert, this is your most absurd statement, proving that you have a serious mental disorder. That a Christian “Theocracy” would take power in the United States of America is extremely improbable (and currently impossible, given the FACT that no one is advocating this). Conversely, a radical Islamic theocracy is infinitely more likely, and even somewhat imminent. It is idiots like you and your profound absurdities that invite radical Islamists to do just that. This is why I consider you and your opinions to be a grave danger to the public at large and to yourself.
    Robert Berger said: “I’m not a Christian and have never been one.” Yeah, no sh*t, Sherlock. (Note to other readers: Who among you did not think the same thought?).
    Robert Berger said: “I don’t want any one interfering with my rights as an American and imposing Christian dogma as law.”
    Well too bad. Our “law”, as in the Constitution, as it was originally written and intended is profoundly Christian. Even though I know by your postings here that you do not read anything meaningful or more profound than the funny papers, or blogposts at DailyKos, you should read “The Devil is in the Details: Essays on Law, Race, Politics, and Religion” by Ellisandro Washington.
    But you won’t. The problem with you, and so many others that think the same way you do, is that you are afraid of Truth. You are so afraid of truth that you attack, condemn and disparage those that understand it. You are so frightened that your long-held ideologies are nothing more than hot air. You are so fearful to come to the understanding that you have believed lies and delusions that your puppet masters have fed you for your entire life and realize that you yourself are a puppet, dancing on the strings of your evil masters.
    The singer poet Bob Dylan once wrote (and sang) that, “it may be the Devil, or it may be the Lord; but you gotta serve somebody”. While I am not promoting Bob Dylan as a sage or prophet, he got this one right. You are serving one or the other. It’s that simple, and that is FACT. Think about which side you are on.

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