13 responses to “Now Marriage Is Above Obama’s Pay Grade, Too”

1. 

   tm

   February 27, 2011

   Excellent article, Selwyn. You also demonstrate that grasp that fitness for your environment doesn’t necessarily mean that you are superior to your fellow man. The opposite just might be true.
   Anyway, I’m perplexed. I can’t believe the gay community is so puerile that the right to have one or both partners dress in drag in a burlesque of a heterosexual marriage is what they’re really fighting for. I would assume they simply want the right to determine how their affairs are settled in the case of illness or death, wrt, property rights & next of kin sort of issues. In a world in which many of us have found ourselves outside the bonds of kinsmanship through blood or marriage, we still might want to decide who receives what’s left of our wealth after we die or who makes decisions for us when we no longer have the capacity, that & who will take care of our minor children if we have any. As a single female with a small family many of whom won’t outlive me, this is somewhat an issue for me as well. I wish the gay community would expand their quest for equity to all of us who exist outside the bounds of traditional relationships as parent, spouse or child. What was easily determined in a more traditional society isn’t now. Most of us need to think about how our affairs will be settled if we die or become incompetent in some way. Even what will become of my pets, barring no other relationships, is an issue that a responsible single adult ought to be able to handle in some way.
   I would applaud the gay community for defending the rights & dignity of all those who have found themselves with out the typical relationship patterns that have been addressed in our legal system. Instead, they merely whine that we deserve the same rights as married people. You know what, so do I as a single, middle aged woman, as do many of my peers who have found themselves in the same situation. The issue of gay marriage is a distraction as far as I’m concerned & I wish someone, somewhere who has more influence than I would get to the heart of the matter. Yet, as ever in America, we allow two and only two positions on an issue, just as we allow two and only two parties.
   I think the rights of best friends, blood brothers & homosexuals ought to be protected in our legal system but, as you say, just b/c two people or a person & a nonperson have some sort of relationship, that doesn’t make it a marriage. I mean it comes across as if a relationship doesn’t involve sex it is somehow inferior to one that does. And I know you wouldn’t be confused as a judge determining my end of life decisions whether or not a cousin I hadn’t seen in 20 years versus my best friend had more right to make end of life decisions for me or receive my worldly possessions. Still, we don’t have laws to cover our needs as people who have non traditional lives in any way. This is the real issue, not whether or not the two people in a relationship have sex with each other.
   Thanks for being one of the few people to get outside the box on the issue of gay marriage. I wish we as a society could approach the issue with common sense for a change but, sadly, if anyone does address the issues of property rights & end of life decisions for never marrieds who never had children, it most likely won’t be the gay community.

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2. 

   Robert Berger

   February 28, 2011

   Same old right-wing garbage,Selwyn. DOMA is absoluitely indefensible.
   Marriage does not need to be “defended”,and any one who thinks it need defense is an ignorant fool. Allwoing same-sex marriage does not interfere in any way with opposite sex couples from getting married and raising families.
   But right-wing homophobic bigots have been using the idiotic notion that marriage is “threatened” as an excuse to open up the slippery slope toward chipping away at the rights of gay people and ultimately persecting them. The scare tactics they have been using are not only idiotic but frightening.
   To say that if same-sex marriage is allowed in America it will somehow lead to legalizing incest and bestiality etc is imbecilic.
   What we MUST defend are the rights of gay people in America,which are very much under attack from homophobic bigots who claim to be pious Christians. By the way,I’m heterosexual.I just deplore homophobia. Any one who says that there is no such thing as homophobia is eithe a liar or an idiot. Homophobia is every bit as real as anti-semitism and racism and no better than these.
   I’m disgusted at narrow-minded,intolerant and self-righteous people who claim that they must “speak out” against homosexuals and homosexuality.
   Hitler also “spoke out” against the Jews. I am also a Jew.

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3. 

   tm

   February 28, 2011

   You’re obfuscating, RB. Whether you like it or not the gender you are born with including your traditional relationship to the opposite sex is the default mode. Marriage between a man and a woman usually with the intent to produce offspring is the default mode for creating a family as well. I don’t mind homosexual relationships and intentions for property disposal or end of life treatment being protected by law but I think the rest of us outside the bounds of the traditional family relationship are just as entitled to that sort of legal protection.
   I’m evolving my view on this issue & wish you would see gay marriage as a legal contract rather than a feel good ending to a comedy. There have already been some odd custody disputes in relation to minor children after a dissolved homosexual relationship. Someone wanted visitation rights to see their exes biological child though I can’t remember the outcome. Children also have a tendency to grow up so dallying too long with a case like this can be pointless except in terms of activism. All the images of cross-dressing same sex couples can’t hide the fact that gay marriage is a cover for social engineering that will also lead to it being used to impose an ideological agenda on as many institutions as possible.
   I wish this was just about making certain homosexuals have as much right to determine who they consider next of kin as heteros. But, in actuality, they already do. So they draw all the attention while hordes of unmarrieds of my generation mostly haven’t dealt with who might take over our affairs after we’re gone. I imagine many of us will end up with a managed care home doing these things. The fact that a marriage of any kind that ends in divorce can also leave people without a family in old age reveals the transitory nature of this debate along with its hidden agenda. In reality, most of us should be writing wills and changing them at least as often as our domestic arrangements change. Yet, there is no discussion of family law, merely the demand for equality and the drama proving a point that hasn’t been made.
   I also wonder that the gay community is so willing to risk all in divorce settlements which could grant the “female” of the couple half of the other person’s wealth or alimony for ever how long. Are there already some gay prenuptial agreements? I think it’s in the arena of divorce that it becomes even more obvious that traditional marriage relates to childbearing. Those laws compensate women who trust a man to take care of her for life when she has forgone other marriage or career opportunities to bear his offspring. A homosexual couple may well rear children together but it’s not automatically obvious which one is the “mother” who functions solely a nurturer and which solely the “father”.
   No one has it easy anymore. The real revolution is in recognizing our legal needs outside the roles of parent, child or sibling are not being met not in finding a way for a minority population to get some sort of protection by claiming that they are functionally the same as man and wife. They aren’t and Selwyn has gone a long way towards making this point.
   So much is below the surface in this debate that stays focused on flamboyant gays having burlesque weddings and Christians trying to impose a biblical worldview on a secular society. It’s something that deserves to be analyzed in much greater depth.

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4. 

   Philip France

   March 1, 2011

   Both tm and RB fail to properly estimate the danger to society that homosexuality brings. The intent of homosexualists is not “fairnesss” nor “equal rights”. It is the destruction of the family unit: husband, wife, children.
   Look up an article entitled “The Overhauling of Straight America” written by militant homosexuals Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill. You will see how deceit, demonization and ridicule of anyone and everyone opposed to the homosexual agenda will be publically vilified and (hopefully) humiliated into silence. This tactic is fascist at its core.
   You see, in order for the homosexual agenda to be “normalized” (which it blatantly CANNOT – if homosexuals were “normal” than the species of homo sapiens would not have survived its first generation – READ THAT AGAIN, AND AGAIN UNTIL YOU FINALLY GET IT!) the actual “normal” (i.e. heterosexual human relations) must be demoted and accepted as abnormal, or sub-normal. This is an absolute axiom.
   Recommended reading on this subject:
   “After the Ball” by militant homosexuals Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen – These brilliant strategists lay out the plan for deluding mainstream Americans into accepting, and even elevating the “gay” (I must ask, “is there anything ‘gay’ about sodomy, pederasty and coprophilia?”) agenda.
   “The Homosexual Agenda: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religoious Freedom Today” by Alan Sears & Craig Osten – Written by two devout 1st Amendment attorneys who expose the debauched, depraved and dangerous lifestyles and practices that is common in the homosexual community. These filthy, outrageous and disgusting practices will never be presented to you in the media. If you happen to know an EMT or an Emergency Room physician, nurse or clerk you can quickly get a grip on just how depraved these sad souls can be.
   “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party” by Scott Lively & Kevin Abrams. This book chronicles the rampant homosexuality and pedarasty of virtually ALL of the leaders of the Nazi party, the SA and the SS. You will see documented evidence of what Europe knew then as “the German Vice” (pedarasty – the homosexual rape of pubescent boys by their elder males). Hitler himself had been a homosexual prostitute as young man in Vienna (he was also a coprophile and a severely deviant pervert). Nazi leaders Himmler, Goering, Hess, Roehm and many others were either sympathizers of, or actual participants in such deviancy (there was also an occult elememt, tied to a Thule Society movement that was popular in Europe in the early 20th Century).
   The facts should be simple to every one of us: If one deviates from Natural law (the law of nature and of nature’s God) in thought or in deed, the rest of you will go with it. This is how such clever and even brilliant men could “justify” such wickedness and perfidy that took place in Nazi Germany.
   I might also recommend that one look up (via web search) the tragic story of a Massachussets boy named Jeffrey Curley – about his murder at the hands of homosexual pedarists and the post-mortem rape of his corpse. The ACLU defended these animals PRO BONO!
   Homosexuality is pure evil and wickedness. It is a crime against the individual, it is a crime against society and it is a crime against its manifold victims – those that are deceived into sympathising with homosexuals as “victims” – when, in fact, the exact opposite is the Truth.

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5. 

   Robert Berger

   March 2, 2011

   Phil , do you really expect me to take the drivel you’ve posted seriously ?
   Your ignorance,bigotry and gullibility are showing. The vast majority of homosexuals are not evil monsters out to harm society.Yes,there are some bad eggs among them,but there are bad eggs in every group of people.
   The overwhelming majority of gays are just ordinary people who min d their own business and bother or threaten no one.Has a gay person ever harmed you or a member of your family,or tried to force you to be homosexual? I doubt it. This has never happened to me, a heterosexual.
   Fact : Far more children are molested by heterosexuals than homosexuals.
   You’ve been hoodwinked by the distortions, half-truths and outright lied constantly being spread by so-called “experts” who are really nothing but homophobic bigots.

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6. 

   Philip France

   March 3, 2011

   Robert,
   I comment from a position of a well-read and informed opinion. I detest having to learn about the uncomfortable and depraved mental state of so many. I wish that it were not so; but it is.
   You fabricate a world that is uninformed and, thus, you “create” a world according to how you wish it to be. I wish that I could “will” a world in the way that I would like it to be: with liberty and justice for all. Sadly, to take the path that you have chosen is to delude yourself. You also seem to establish a position that, because I oppose this agenda I therefore hate the individuals. You are grievously wrong, and if it is true that you do, you have insulted me. For the record: I pity these men and women that have been enslaved in such utter torment. I avail myself to anyone who seeks deliverance from this mental and physical slavery and have had success in doing so.
   You are the classic moral relativist. You believe that you alone can decide what is morally acceptable and what is not. As such, you are a clear and present danger to yourself and, worse yet, to everyone else.
   As stated previously, the knowledge that I have on this subject is uncomfortable and even disturbing to know, but my opinions are founded on historical facts. Your opinion is formed by your “feelings” and your false belief that this radical “gay” agenda” is not evil. You are blatantly wrong and you will know this someday.
   If memory serves me correctly, you are in your mid-50’s. That is an awfully long time to have lived on this earth and to not have grown up. You have the socio-political acumen of a six year-old. Please, do us all a favor and either grow up or go away.
   In my previous commentary, I cited three works that have informed my opinions and commentary (one from my leading opposition; in which my opponents freely admit their intent to deceive) and two from experts and historians that support my position through factuality and documentation. I am one of the rare readers that actually check an author’s notes and do my utmost to verify the veracity of the author’s claims. Like I have said, I find such facts terribly uncomfortable and I wish that these awful and repulsive realities were not so.
   You cite none. It is, therefore a strategy of fascism on your part for you to expect anyone to expect your ill-informed opinion to prevail in any debate.

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7. 

   Robert Berger

   March 5, 2011

   Phil,you’re setting up an awful number of straw mern here.I didn’t say that you hate gay people.I meant that you have been hoodwinked by homophobic bigots into believing that there is a sinister homosexual agenda which is a threat to America,a ludicrous notion. Like so many other conservatives,you may not actually hate them,but you have very bad attitudes toward them.
   I don’t base my opinions on my own personal feelings and emotions; I do on the basis of facts. The truth is that homophobia is a far greater threat to gay people than gay people are a threat to society. You are pathetically ignorant about homosexuals and homosexuality,and you have been brainwashed by conservative myths about them.
   Gay people are accused of living unhealthy lifestyles and endangering their health and longevity,which is true of some of them. But there are a lot more gay people who range from thir 60s to 90s who are in good health than conservatives are willing to admit.
   Why is it that gay people are so stigmatized for their lifestyles, when millions of Americans also live very unhealthy and dangerous lifestyles by abusing alcohol, smoking, using illegal drugs,eating unhealthy diets and having promiscous heterosexual sex etc? No one stigmatizes them the way they do gay people.
   People are much more sympathetic to people for doing foolish things like these, but terribly hostile to gay people. This is a double standard.

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8. 

   Philip France

   March 5, 2011

   Robert,
   You are out of your mind.
   You dismiss the dangers of HIV/AIDS. You pretend that terms and practices such as analingus and fisting are the construct of anti-homosexual “bigots”. You dismiss the radical promiscuity of the homosexual lifestyle as well as its tendency toward pedarasty.
   You are probably also blissfully ignorant of the ties of “butch” homosexual males to the modern Neo-Nazi and skinhead movements.
   The very fact that Nazi leaders including Hitler, Himmler Goehring, Hess and Roehm were all homosexuals or homosexualist and many of them were pederasts (the Hitler Youth were recruited by radical homosexual pederast Ernst Roehm as a resource of boys for the Nazi leaders to molest and rape) should be of alarm to anyone and everyone – except you.
   You claim a position that is factually based and yet you state no facts to support your debate. You are an intellectual reprobate and your opinions have no place on this blogstream.

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9. 

   tm

   March 5, 2011

   “You dismiss the radical promiscuity of the homosexual lifestyle as well as its tendency toward pedarasty.”
   Let’s not forget the relative use of the concept of “promiscuity” between cultures. It wouldn’t surprise me that Charlie Sheen with his two resident porn stars has had fewer than say 30 lovers in his life time. Promiscuity for a gay male who goes to certain venues to have depersonalized sex might top that number in a night. Yet, any heterosexual observing Sheen would consider him promiscuous.

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10. 

    Shaun

    March 7, 2011

    Robert,
    While it is true that homosexuality is stigmitized more than other sins, I think there is at least some rational justification. For one, sins of a sexual nature have their own unique characteristics over lets say abusing your body with drugs. would you not agree? That at least creates a distinction from other sins. Beating a person and having intercourse with him are two different things yes?
    Also, I think you are terribly ignorant of what goes on in the homo community. There was a great book put out by a former surgeon general who detailed what her San Francisco hospital took in from the “gay” community every weekend. Gerbels, coke bottles, pipes, anything these people could cram up their rectum would be found and often have to be surgically removed. “Gay pride” parades are more often than not obscene spectacles of drugs, hate, and total sexual debauchery. Have you ever seen one? People performing all sorts of sex acts in the street, men sodomizing themselves with crucifix shaped dildo’s. Is this normal Robert??? Is this sane behaviour? Do you see Tea Party rallies doing this??? Obviously something is not right. What about the nefarious “bath houses” where the above post mentioned. Hundreds of intercourse acts ina night are not beyond the norm. Abuse, drug addiction, violence. all of these are commonplace in the homosexual community. The evidence is abundant. It is engrained in the homo lifestyle.
    If people want to ruin their lives with this sort of lifestyle than so be it, but to glamorize this and promote this culture as welcome in society is…..wrong at best.

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11. 

    Robert Berger

    March 7, 2011

    I’m not the least bit ignorant oabout what SOME homosexuals do, but there are plenty of heterosexuals who are guilty of foolsihlty destructive sexual conduct.
    By no means all gay people are like what you describe.
    Furthermore, AIDS today is a primarily heterosexual disease spread by unsafe sex,drug use etc, and far more straight people are currently suffering from it than gays.
    Promiscuous gays are a threat to themselves,but certaijnly not society as a whole.
    I don’t condone sexual misconduct on the part of any one,straight or gay.

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12. 

    Philip France

    March 7, 2011

    Robert,
    Consider your absurdity.
    You would have us believe that planting the seeds of life into an apparatus designed for the expelling of waste to be acceptable, if not “good” and “normal”. This is absurd.
    Now consider this:
    “Those that could make you believe in absurdities can get you to commit atrocities” ~ Voltaire.
    This is why you are a danger to yourself and to society at large. Please go away.

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13. 

    tm

    March 8, 2011

    In my mind’s ear Phillip France is a conservative Phil Hartman who has better taste in women.

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